tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post2128860813652641437..comments2024-03-29T04:34:05.185-04:00Comments on CURMUDGUCATION: Free College, Charter Schools, and IronyPeter Greenehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16511193640285760299noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-66939159380471078382021-10-04T19:01:56.050-04:002021-10-04T19:01:56.050-04:00The original idea of HS is that kids would get out...The original idea of HS is that kids would get out of HS with least least a marketable skills. Later it all became about college ready. The majority of the vocational programs were pushed out. But the whole population does not need or want to to to university. And, they can be successful with a vocational schooling and business. After all there are a lot of people that go into a university only to emerge in to a field that is not related. And, for them a university has been a expensive damn in their way. that they didn't need. Lets make an education count again. KDVZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06689970834143971159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-21899573018727692352016-01-23T12:12:21.697-05:002016-01-23T12:12:21.697-05:00STRS's investments are extremely diversified a...STRS's investments are extremely diversified and managed very responsibly by STRS, not hedge fund managers, and they don't do frequent trades. What hurt them was the Great Recession caused by the unscrupulous risky players.Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-10163878201777004882016-01-22T20:42:25.704-05:002016-01-22T20:42:25.704-05:00Rebecca,
You should remember that teacher's r...Rebecca,<br /><br />You should remember that teacher's retirement funds are invested in the financial markets and hedge funds. Lowering the returns to investing will effect teachers as well as hedge fund managers. Here is a link to everything the Ohio teacher retirement fund owned as of the last filing: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/820478/000082047815000025/xslForm13F_X01/f151021.xmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-59335638787730596952016-01-22T15:49:40.532-05:002016-01-22T15:49:40.532-05:00Actually, with Bernie's plan, college would be...Actually, with Bernie's plan, college would be paid for by a tax on certain types of frequent trading transactions, which would just affect people like hedge fund managers, and would make the financial system more stable to boot. Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-23202195377652812502016-01-22T15:14:47.051-05:002016-01-22T15:14:47.051-05:00Eric,
Here is some specific data about household ...Eric,<br /><br />Here is some specific data about household wealth of students at a top state university. It is from an op ed piece in The Michigan Daily, the student newspaper at The University of Michigan.<br /><br />" For the class of 2013 (the most recent class for which data is published), 84.4 percent of students reported parental income above $50,000 a year. More students reported an annual family income of over $250,000 (16.9 percent) than below $50,000 (15.6 percent). Keep in mind that according to the 2010 U.S. Census, more than half of all Michigan residents make less than $50,000 each year."<br /><br />The op ed writer did make one mistake, median household income in Michigan was less than $50,000, not median individual income.<br /><br />You can find the median household income by state for 2010 here: https://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/acsbr11-02.pdf<br /><br />You can find the original op ed here: https://www.michigandaily.com/opinion/matthew-green-make-college-more-accessibleAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-82140337995826039042016-01-22T09:27:11.652-05:002016-01-22T09:27:11.652-05:00Eric,
It does not apply to K-12 because students ...Eric,<br /><br />It does not apply to K-12 because students are required to attend K-12 while post secondary education is optional and students from wealthier households are more likely to choose post secondary education. The result is that the median household wealth of a college or university student is higher than the median household wealth of a student in K-12. The median household wealth of a student in K-12 is much closer (probably nearly identical with) the median household wealth of people who pay taxes.<br /><br />Even more equitable than "free" college would be a progressive system where students from wealthier households pay more.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-25205821978035968482016-01-22T08:14:22.870-05:002016-01-22T08:14:22.870-05:00I also wish in this debate that everyone would sto...I also wish in this debate that everyone would stop saying things like "someone will have to pay for free college so it isn't really free." That is a cheap debating trick. When people say "free college" all they mean is that students will not be charged tuition. In other words, taxpayers will subsidize all the educational costs. But this already happens in the K-12 public systems. Those systems are free to the students/families who use them, although obviously taxpayers pay for the system. <br /><br />To act as if those proposing free public colleges actually believe that the taxpayers won't be the ones paying is both insulting and disingenuous. I wish people would stop using such a cheap rhetorical trick Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07228908566250306699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-53721232290024507232016-01-22T08:09:40.319-05:002016-01-22T08:09:40.319-05:00But that same argument applies to K-12 public educ...But that same argument applies to K-12 public education. So, do you hold that K-12 public education should not be free to wealthier households? Probably not. <br /><br />Equity in taxes and government services is obviously very complicated. Some inequity in one area can be offset in another. The real questions is whether free college, at the community college level at least, can be part of a more equitable society. The answer to that question, especially given the historical record on free college in America (not to mention other countries), seems to be a "yes". Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07228908566250306699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-43877222819936469722016-01-21T23:26:28.371-05:002016-01-21T23:26:28.371-05:00The problem with "free college" is that ...The problem with "free college" is that it ends up being a subsidy from relatively poor households to relatively wealthy ones. It was that way in 1984, and would be if it was started again.<br /><br />Charging based on household income is much more equitable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-69350827834066888302016-01-21T21:54:39.752-05:002016-01-21T21:54:39.752-05:00I think that this blog post is really interesting!...I think that this blog post is really interesting! I have to say, I do see similarities between the free-college movement and charter schools. I think that it is really hard to make it so that college is completely free, in some way or another, people will have to pay for it. Speaking on the charter school system, I feel that if we continue to pour money into these schools as well as private schools we are only harming public schools even more. It becomes a cycle of lowering public schools and taking away their funding, when in reality we should be pouring the same money into improving the public school system. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08421964113245117823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-31862018040347909462016-01-21T19:26:21.089-05:002016-01-21T19:26:21.089-05:00It really disturbs me that nearly no one discussin...It really disturbs me that nearly no one discussing various free college plans realizes that various public college systems have been free to students before. California community colleges were free until about 1984. I attended a California CC a few years after 1984 and I only paid $50 per semester in fees. There was no tuition. <br /><br />Also, UC Berkeley used to be free, and I believe that city colleges in New York City were also free at some point in the past. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07228908566250306699noreply@blogger.com