tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post1868090022604695777..comments2024-03-28T19:47:39.985-04:00Comments on CURMUDGUCATION: The Education Monopoly?Peter Greenehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16511193640285760299noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-57744366148022628232015-06-30T12:14:37.891-04:002015-06-30T12:14:37.891-04:00I certainly think that requiring charter schools t...I certainly think that requiring charter schools to be non-profit is reasonable. New York, I believe, has this requirement (though I think a few for profit relationships were grandfathered in).<br /><br />It is likely that Peter (thanks for the correction) is concerned with schools that do a poor job, but it seemed to me the thrust of the post was about the possibility of an "education monopoly". I hope that he will comment about the evidence I have given that there are not the returns to scale in education that would lead one to worry about the creation of an education monopoly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-55642297600303690172015-06-30T11:52:47.058-04:002015-06-30T11:52:47.058-04:00I think you mean Peter, not Paul.And I think he is...I think you mean Peter, not Paul.And I think he is also concerned about many charter schools doing a poor job, and being too much the same. Anyway, plunking people down in front of a computer with crap curriculum doesn't work for most students. It only happens when charters are trying to cut costs because making a profit is more important than educating students. So I'm not saying we need regulation dictating what format has to be used. I'm saying we need regulation that charters can't be for-profit so that students come first, not profit. Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-57435961611805681962015-06-29T15:52:48.226-04:002015-06-29T15:52:48.226-04:00Rebecca,
When you say large number, how many are ...Rebecca,<br /><br />When you say large number, how many are there? <br /><br />There is absolutely no regulation against simply plunking students down in front of computers with a crap curriculum in private K-12 schools or post secondary education. Is that how private schools, colleges, and universities are typically run?<br /><br />Corinthian is dead because it did not work for the majority of students that enrolled there. It likely would work for others. I have one son that managed to teach himself enough economics, physics, computer programming, and environmental science to do very well on the AP exams without taking the appropriate courses (largely because the courses were not offered at the high school). Another son has become a very good frailing banjo player mainly by watching Youtube. This does work for some students, and I don't think prohibiting this way of education is in the interest of all students.<br /><br />In any case, Paul's concern is not that there would be many different charter schools that do a poor job, but rather that the education market would evolve into something like the large jetliner market where there are a couple of dominant players and another two or three on the periphery. I don't think there is any evidence that education has the large returns to scale that would needed to create this situation. I will be interested to see what he has to say if he chooses to respond.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-25410969073291328182015-06-29T15:16:04.474-04:002015-06-29T15:16:04.474-04:00What about the large number of for-profit and non-...What about the large number of for-profit and non-profit-managed by-for profits that are not chartered by local districts and offer nothing special, and who do what costs them the least so they have the most profit, simply plunking students down in front of computers with crap curriculum on them and letting the students fend for themselves? There needs to be regulation so that doesn't happen. At the post-secondary level you've got the example of the Corinthian debacle, among others<br />Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-29786763184363973382015-06-29T09:05:32.057-04:002015-06-29T09:05:32.057-04:00Dienne et al,
Sorry I am late to the party, but b...Dienne et al,<br /><br />Sorry I am late to the party, but better late than never.<br /><br />The concern with competitive markets becoming monopoly markets is primarily a concern about economies of scale in education. I think Peter's concern with the monopolization of education in a world where parents can choose schools is unwarranted because there are not significant economies of scale in education.<br /><br />Consider post secondary education, for example. The oldest colleges and universities in the country are a good deal older than the country itself, so if Peter is right and there are returns to scale in education we would expect that this segment of education would have become highly concentrated, with a few large universities dominating the market. That is not at all what we see. The largest private university in the country, NYU, enrolled a little over 22,000 undergraduates (in 2011, the most recent figure I could quickly find) out of a total of 21,000,000 undergraduate students in the country. This tiny market share ( .1%) for the largest private university in the country suggests that there are no significant scale economies in higher education.<br /><br />Now if we look at private K-12 education we see a similar pattern. Some private schools have been around for multiple centuries, and yet have not come to dominate the private school market.<br /><br />Neither the post secondary experience or private school experience is consistent with only having the alternatives A, B, or C Peter discusses. I believe that option D, where we end up with a large number of relatively small autonomous publicly supported schools which will mirror the variety of approaches to education that are currently available to the relatively wealthy who can afford private education like Dienne.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-91450853997795918762015-06-28T18:32:40.462-04:002015-06-28T18:32:40.462-04:00lol Dienne, I was thinking the same thing. Where i...lol Dienne, I was thinking the same thing. Where is TE?Jannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132195897201545933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-40780554978876584332015-06-28T18:32:30.639-04:002015-06-28T18:32:30.639-04:00lol Dienne, I was thinking the same thing. Where i...lol Dienne, I was thinking the same thing. Where is TE?Jannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07132195897201545933noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-65067724872761476362015-06-28T14:54:01.217-04:002015-06-28T14:54:01.217-04:00I think the "upper limit past which size beco...I think the "upper limit past which size becomes more of a problem than a help" may even be true of Toledo, Ohio.Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-29568834461323101842015-06-28T09:54:10.885-04:002015-06-28T09:54:10.885-04:00Hey, Teaching Economist - this post is calling out...Hey, Teaching Economist - this post is calling out for your brilliance, since you're apparently a new fan of this blog. In a few short inches of bandwidth, Mr. Greene has refuted pretty much everything you've ever posted. Rebuttal?Diennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04570040547158789834noreply@blogger.com