tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post172236004308239779..comments2024-03-28T19:47:39.985-04:00Comments on CURMUDGUCATION: Neighborhood Failure FactoriesPeter Greenehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16511193640285760299noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-52614889845170224202015-08-16T12:30:00.967-04:002015-08-16T12:30:00.967-04:00TE, I read the transcripts. What fantastic reporti...TE, I read the transcripts. What fantastic reporting! And so relevant to what we're talking about. It goes along with what Eric is talking about anecdotally below, and explains that integration is the only thing that really works to close the achievement gap, because kids are in a school with sufficient quality resources and teachers, and when everybody's not behind because of years of years of insufficient resources, it's easier to bring up the level of those that are."Separate but equal," besides being illegal, just doesn't work. Integration did work, people just pretend it didn't. Not to mention the advantage for everyone of being in a more diverse environment. And then the example of how not to implement it - mostly by on purpose trying to make it fail, like in Missouri - and then the example of Hartford, where it's going better but is still very difficult, especially since it's expensive because nice schools with good resources and small enough classes is expensive.Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-91142502301792748312015-08-16T09:58:17.957-04:002015-08-16T09:58:17.957-04:00Yes, if the school personnel don't listen to p...Yes, if the school personnel don't listen to parents, acknowledge their concerns, and at least take them into consideration, that's a problem.Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-32046873401749434152015-08-16T08:54:42.294-04:002015-08-16T08:54:42.294-04:00Yes, until the 15th century and printing presses, ...Yes, until the 15th century and printing presses, oral communication was probably the main method of teaching, though there have been scribes for probably 6000 years, and people were talking without written language for probably hundreds of thousands of years, but aural is not my preferred mode of comprehension.<br /><br />It seems like I was better at it in high school, so I don't know what happened. Too many years of reading? I just don't process auditory language input well. It may also be that I'm getting hard of hearing, and I have difficulty distinguishing consonants. Listening takes so much concentration and my mind tends to wander and I miss stuff. I can't even watch a movie - though that may be even worse because I get distracted by the visual - without having the closed captions on or I miss half the dialogue. I'd much rather read a book anyway, and imagine the visual myself. With a book it's easier for me to focus, it's easy if I want to re-read something, and if I get bored I can jump around or skim. Rewinding is more difficult and fast-fowarding, I can't skim and I miss something. And I get really mad, it feels like such a waste of time, if I watch 2 hours of a movie and then decide I hate it because the ending was stupid with too many loose ends. <br /><br />Anyway, at my age I try not to do things I don't enjoy. I'll take a look at the transcript.Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-60042584768667728882015-08-16T08:32:53.068-04:002015-08-16T08:32:53.068-04:00The failing of neighborhood schools is colorblind....The failing of neighborhood schools is colorblind. I have always considered myself a neighborhood school teacher. However, the neighborhood school (predominantly white) failed both of my children. I pulled both children out of that school so they had access to a better education. One currently attends a cyber-charter school where my voice is heard, recognized, and supported. The teachers actually listen to me and welcome my emails and phone calls. The other attends our local private Catholic school despite our family not participating in the Catholic faith. I found the neighborhood school did not want to listen to the me, the parent, who also holds a master's degree in science education. I know education. I know how the system works. I am a teacher. Both of my sisters are teachers... it's in the blood. My family found that the neighborhood school did NOT want to listen to the parents... our voices were present but unrecognized and unsupported. I had to find other means of educating my children in order to be heard. The neighborhood school had one way of doing things - its way. Any idea that was different from what was already being done was dismissed, ignored, or not even acknowledged.Christyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12596047321173029525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-23869810735821255472015-08-16T00:42:27.107-04:002015-08-16T00:42:27.107-04:00Rebecca,
This American Life provides a transcript...Rebecca,<br /><br />This American Life provides a transcript of their podcast at url I posted above.<br /><br />You are missing something by not listening to podcasts. Before the technology of writing was invented, oral communication was the only method of education. The internet has allowed us to effectively use that very very old method of education again at a reasonably low cost.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-69544289653194215692015-08-15T22:46:51.266-04:002015-08-15T22:46:51.266-04:00I don't listen to podcasts, I only read. I wou...I don't listen to podcasts, I only read. I would read a transcript or you could give me a synopsis.Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-72727965162348380432015-08-15T19:02:51.270-04:002015-08-15T19:02:51.270-04:00Rebecca,
Have you listened to the recent This Ame...Rebecca,<br /><br />Have you listened to the recent This American Life podcast on desegregation? It is available here: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives . The episode numbers are 562 and 563.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-80571353207998303242015-08-15T18:53:06.920-04:002015-08-15T18:53:06.920-04:00Where I live, when the city schools became "t...Where I live, when the city schools became "too" integrated, whites started moving in droves to the suburbs, which were already too expensive for poor families. Or they sent their kids to Catholic schools, even if they weren't Catholic. Or they moved to gated communities and sent their kids to private schools. The suburban schools didn't get better, they stayed the same level of "good," as measured by standardized tests. But my own kids got a good education in the local city public schools, in spite of the relatively low standardized test scores of the school, and both my daughters graduated college summa cum laude. And my kids don't freak out if they talk to people who look different from them. In fact, they have lots of friends who "look different" from them. Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-86152978694375579402015-08-15T16:49:12.665-04:002015-08-15T16:49:12.665-04:00Rebecca,
I think that segregation is an emergent ...Rebecca,<br /><br />I think that segregation is an emergent property of people's decisions on where to attend school. Each individual family want's the best school for their children and they have to pay for it by buying into a school district/catchment area. The school/district becomes filled with evolved parents that value education, resulting in an even better reputation for the school. The school/district becomes too expensive for poor minority families and we end up with largely segregated schools.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-62544436955119555322015-08-15T15:46:38.539-04:002015-08-15T15:46:38.539-04:00As usual, TE, I don't understand what you'...As usual, TE, I don't understand what you're talking about. First you're talking about segregation, then you're saying, "I don't think race is necessarily the driving force" and saying that "more concerned and involved parents" make schools stronger. Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-21343249752197786592015-08-15T13:46:03.212-04:002015-08-15T13:46:03.212-04:00Dienne,
I actually know a couple of people of col...Dienne,<br /><br />I actually know a couple of people of color who moved across catchment lines because the they felt the assigned school had too low a minority enrollment, but I don't think race is necessarily the driving force here.<br /><br />Parents want their children to go to strong schools, and given that public school admission is based on street address, those parents buy admission by buying real estate in the catchment area. As more concerned and involved parents choose to move into the catchment area of a school that is perhaps only slightly stronger than the neighboring school, the difference between the stronger school and surrounding schools become greater. Real estate prices grow faster inside the strong school's catchment area so now only the relatively wealthy can afford to live there. This is why the redrawing of PS 321's catchment caused apartments that were formally inside the catchment area to lose value.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-91304829433674314152015-08-15T12:04:09.278-04:002015-08-15T12:04:09.278-04:00Interesting how you're bobbing and weaving her...Interesting how you're bobbing and weaving here. Are you saying that if lines are drawn across neighborhoods, the black people will move away from white people? Of course not. So what you're talking about is racism, right?Diennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04570040547158789834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-8871497803886446192015-08-15T09:51:20.443-04:002015-08-15T09:51:20.443-04:00This is what I've noticed too, that the effort...This is what I've noticed too, that the efforts to integrate schools and communities have all been abandoned. I was reading an article about #Black Lives Matter, and it talked about this and the fact that so many white people have never even talked to a black person face to face, that often blacks' main contact with whites is from being on the losing end of the power structure, or that when the two do interact, it's on a superficial level. People need to interact on a level footing to be able to understand each other and be friends. It's therefore also economic. At the very least, if schools are going to be segregated, poor neighborhoods need more resources, and community schools, that also provide services for the community at large, can be helpful. But people need to be in situations, at work, at school, where they can get to know each other. To me, integration did a lot of good, but it's all coming undone. Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-14501414182512129422015-08-15T08:01:56.954-04:002015-08-15T08:01:56.954-04:00The "neighborhood schools" movement is l...The "neighborhood schools" movement is largely about race. In private discussions with white parents in my neighborhood in North Carolina it became readily apparent that they did not want their children going to school with African-American children. Of course, no one will say this in public. So, busing was ended in my community, and the schools were, in effect, re-segregated. The test scores for white students stayed the same, but the test scores for African-American students dropped. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07228908566250306699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-50356085211509982402015-08-15T08:01:29.352-04:002015-08-15T08:01:29.352-04:00Given the intense residential segregation in the c...Given the intense residential segregation in the country it is difficult to see how neighborhood schools can be anything but segregated. Even if the local school board draws catchment lines across neighborhoods in an effort to promote integration, over time people will make housing decisions that will tend to re-segregate the school.<br /><br />This American Life did a very interesting two part episode on segregation in public schools called The Problem We All Live With. It is worth a listen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-18472333401555911822015-08-15T00:25:03.917-04:002015-08-15T00:25:03.917-04:00Thank you for discussing this very contentious top...Thank you for discussing this very contentious topic so intelligently and so fairly. If more people were willing to have such discussions, perhaps we could take some steps to solve these seemingly intractable problems.P. Gruntherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14737485008917583535noreply@blogger.com