tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post1246039623258048678..comments2024-03-29T04:34:05.185-04:00Comments on CURMUDGUCATION: Test Scoring MonkeysPeter Greenehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16511193640285760299noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-40355861672097980242015-07-13T15:04:55.790-04:002015-07-13T15:04:55.790-04:00I don't care who he is, I wouldn't want my...I don't care who he is, I wouldn't want my findings misapplied.<br /><br />As far as his recent work, it isn't surprising that more segregated areas have less upward mobility; that areas with smaller class sizes and higher local education (property) taxes have higher upward mobility; or that areas with more single parents have less upward mobility. The study says areas with more religious individuals and greater community participation have higher upward mobility; however, many African-American communities have strongly religious populations, but in their case it doesn't seem to lead to higher upward mobility. It seems weird that local market conditions and access to higher education do not correlate to upper mobility. The thing I notice from the map is that rural areas seem to have greater upper mobility, while all the southeast seems to have the least upward mobility. I don't know how any of this leads to practical solutions to poverty. Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-64364739686949579312015-07-13T12:09:14.601-04:002015-07-13T12:09:14.601-04:00Chetty is a professor a full professor at Harvard ...Chetty is a professor a full professor at Harvard on the short list for a future Nobel prize. There is no ulterior agenda.<br /><br />Have you read his recent work on inter-generational income mobility and geography? It was widely covered by the press.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-37686508735483571412015-07-13T11:36:16.824-04:002015-07-13T11:36:16.824-04:00If Chetty et al don't have an ulterior agenda,...If Chetty et al don't have an ulterior agenda, they should be upset that Arne and Cuomo are misapplying their findings and should be vociferously correcting their misapprehensions. Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-77337455780088224552015-07-13T10:19:59.110-04:002015-07-13T10:19:59.110-04:00Rebecca,
I doubt that many policy makers will get...Rebecca,<br /><br />I doubt that many policy makers will get the message from posts on blogs, so I think the work that can be done on the blogs is building on the common ground that exists. Your quotes from Chetty et al are a good example of this, pointing out that the authors of the paper have a reasonable position on the effectiveness of this measure of teaching. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-52075935194823219552015-07-12T23:21:23.259-04:002015-07-12T23:21:23.259-04:00Even Chetty et al say that VAMs are "not perf...Even Chetty et al say that VAMs are "not perfectly reliable" and that "educators and policymakers are likely to make better decisions if they are based on multiple measures of job performance rather than any stand-alone metric." They even state that "other measures of teacher performance, such as principal evaluations, student ratings, or classroom observation, may prove ultimately to be better predictors of teachers' long-term impacts on students than VAMs."<br /><br />But Arne, Cuomo, and others haven't gotten the message. They either don't understand, or choose not to, the assumptions and limitations of the models. Arne doesn't care if any method other than one based on test scores - with or without value-added - is used. Cuomo insists on VAMs being 50% of teacher evaluations - even though experts say 20% is too much weight - and if a teacher's VAM score isn't good enough, the other parts of the evaluation don't count.Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-23579494470007455732015-07-12T18:11:14.298-04:002015-07-12T18:11:14.298-04:00Thanks, Peter, for the usual excellent commentary....Thanks, Peter, for the usual excellent commentary. Great comment section at the end of the NPR article.laMissyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00516322307725011313noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-92156630803139243332015-07-12T18:08:40.932-04:002015-07-12T18:08:40.932-04:00Rebecca,
I have read both the ASA statement and t...Rebecca,<br /><br />I have read both the ASA statement and the two Chetty et al articles, and Chetty's response to the ASA statement. I would love to have a discussion about them here if you would like to have one.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-66524367297619104972015-07-12T18:03:44.503-04:002015-07-12T18:03:44.503-04:00Another insightful analysis with wonderful Greene ...Another insightful analysis with wonderful Greene analogies.Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-80081321610869991402015-07-12T18:01:39.897-04:002015-07-12T18:01:39.897-04:00I wish that were true, TE. The trouble is, when pe...I wish that were true, TE. The trouble is, when people have an ulterior agenda, they lie and ignore facts. For example, the American Statistical Association has stated clearly, giving clear explanations why, VAMs cannot be used as valid measures of an individual teacher's effectiveness, and this has been pretty widely disseminated. Yet politicians from Arne Duncan to Andrew Cuomo continue to insist they be used.Rebecca deCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168718846105012814noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-34937669399047835792015-07-12T14:35:30.494-04:002015-07-12T14:35:30.494-04:00My thought would be that "demonizing" an...My thought would be that "demonizing" anything is not really effective in changing minds. Presenting clear arguments that seek to find common ground between people who disagree is much more effective.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-48406388826665680312015-07-12T13:18:19.367-04:002015-07-12T13:18:19.367-04:00If our blogs' audiences are only or mostly edu...If our blogs' audiences are only or mostly educators, are we wasting our time? Anti-reformist blogging demonizing school choice, testing, privatization, charters, low teacher pay, etc. is frustrated educator feel good. I would very much like to read ideas on positive actions we can take that will change the parental and political misperceptions of public schooling.Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04692400051610872280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-66420241961845037542015-07-12T12:13:32.512-04:002015-07-12T12:13:32.512-04:00We all get fat finger syndrome at the keyboard.We all get fat finger syndrome at the keyboard.Old Teacherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05906965809756360801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-34961242573465057412015-07-12T10:16:14.541-04:002015-07-12T10:16:14.541-04:00Phila.ken, is "by" a typo or a joke? A j...Phila.ken, is "by" a typo or a joke? A joke, I hop.Old Fogeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16173493805828396609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-16709274863776025962015-07-12T08:52:17.202-04:002015-07-12T08:52:17.202-04:00Third paragraph from bottom: "I don't eve...Third paragraph from bottom: "I don't even know how to explain how insane that is. In my won classroom, my students know exactly what is going to be on a test."<br /><br />Shouldn't "won" by "own"?phila.kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16583950792868787397noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6534665086749553287.post-13835862912060145692015-07-12T08:46:39.306-04:002015-07-12T08:46:39.306-04:00I would like to help Ms. Vickers out in providing ...I would like to help Ms. Vickers out in providing more clarity about the scoring process. She skims a response for 20 to 30 seconds, thinks about which anchor paper she remembers from a training class she attended some months ago the response is closest to, assigns a score, and moves on. Remember the old Lucille Ball scene in I Love Lucy where she and Ethel have to pack candies in boxes as the conveyor belt runs by faster and faster? That is what the actual scoring process for writing and constructed responses looks like.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03544213160574214282noreply@blogger.com